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Messages - Lost Soul

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61
New Techniques & Learning / Re: Magnetic Variation
« on: January 28, 2014, 01:44:25 PM »
In the main Hugh, I agree with you and do likewise.  Only difference is that I do like mnemonics and find them extremely useful.

In respect of being accurate to a couple of degrees of heading on a short leg.  It is not really here nor there.  Practical realities vs theory; does it make a difference?  To illustrate - the difference between a pure mathematician and an applied mathematician.  Something you desire is 2 meters in front of you.  To reach it you step forward, each step halving the distance between you and the object - 1 metre. 0.5 metre. 0.25 metre - you get the picture.  How many steps do you have to take to reach the object.  Pure mathematician will says you will never reach it, applied mathematician says about 8 for all practical purposes.

So it is with being 2 deg out on a 500 metre leg.  Using the 1 in 60 rule which states that for every degree off heading you are then you will be l metre out of position for every 60 travelled.  So 2 deg mis-heading over 500 metres = 16.7 meters out of position.  Assuming of course you are able to walk in a dead straight line in the first place.

Any way when following a compass heading are we not taught to stop every few metres to check position on desired track etc and adjust accordingly.  The lower the visibility / the more dodgy the terrain the more frequently we should check.

Putting 16 metres into perspective, by my estimation that is about the width of one carriageway of a 3 lane motorway. 

62
Regional SAR teams / Snowdon Rescue
« on: January 27, 2014, 06:40:01 PM »
Oh dear yet again.  Will they never learn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-25916362

63
Wilderness Survival / Re: A lesson about redundancy
« on: January 27, 2014, 09:09:36 AM »
Also your experience reinforce the need for all of us to do a full kit check before we set out.  Is it there? is it serviceable? does it work?  In respect of the latter battery operated gadgets - do they work.

64
Compasses / Magnetic North Pole Movement Affects UK Mapping
« on: January 23, 2014, 09:37:45 AM »
North Magentic Pole's walk about is now such that for the first time in 220 years magnetic variation in the UK is now East.  Well for the moment its east for points west of Penzance.

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2014/01/magnetic-north-is-on-the-move-again/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-25841106





65
Emergency & Backup Equipment / Re: Spot/In Reach/ PLB - balancing them
« on: January 09, 2014, 11:25:01 AM »
Hugh’s comment   To satisfy the fears of your family, all you need to do is to leave a photocopy of your map with the route marked on it. In the unlikely event that you fail to return, the police should have a pretty clear idea of where you are likely to be. Is very valid and sound advice, but I had doubts about the nature of the police response for low land areas vs mountainous areas and also the prioritisation given by them in respect of the vulnerability of the individual.  E.g. Well equipped fit walker vs child or dementia sufferer.

So I did snap check on the internet to see what police missing persons response policy had been put into the public domain.

The first item I found was Kent Police’s policy

http://www.kent.police.uk/about_us/policies/n/n037.html

And more enlightening was an FOI request made of The PSNI from which I post some extracts below.

http://www.psni.police.uk/missing_persons_northern_ireland.pdf



Question 4

Are those reported missing designated under different categories (for example, a 4 year old who goes missing may be put into an 'urgent category')?

Answer

The investigation of a missing person is based on the circumstances of the disappearance. Officers recording the initial report will record sufficient information to conduct a risk assessment and initiate a police response. There are varying degrees of risk and police action is guided by the known facts. The vulnerability of a missing person is a strong consideration in establishing the potential risk to the missing person. All persons under 18 years of age are included in the definition of vulnerable.

Question 5

If so, what are these categories, and are there different levels of priority assigned to them (please explain)?

Answer

There are varying degrees of risk and police is guided accordingly. The degrees of risk are defined as:

Low Risk – no apparent threat/danger to the missing person or members of the public.

Medium Risk – the risk posed is likely to put the missing person in danger or threatens other members of the public.

High Risk – the risk posed is immediate and there are substantial grounds for believing the missing person is in danger
through their own vulnerability or mental state, or there are substantial grounds for believing that the public is in danger
as a result of the missing person’s mental state.

Question 6

Are there different responses and procedures for each?

Answer

The Call Grading Policy Directive will determine the immediate response. Upon attending and commencing an investigation, the response/investigator will be determined on risk. If assessed as Medium or Low Risk – the supervisor should be informed immediately and the Duty Officer should be advised as soon as possible who will appoint an investigating officer. If assessed as High Risk – the Duty Officer should be informed immediately and a Crime Manager will direct the investigation.

Question 8

What methods are employed to find them?

Answer

The methods employed and circulation of the missing person will depend upon the circumstances, in line with previous reports (where applicable), information held on databases, and circumstances of the incident that led to the missing person being reported i.e. a hill walker or a child reported missing. Checks will be made with local hospitals, police establishments to determine whether or not the missing person is detained in custody, police officers will be briefed with a description and last known whereabouts, friends contacted if not already done so by relatives etc.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Working on the basis that there will be reasonably standardised policies across all of the UK's Police Forces then the conclusion I draw from this all to brief investigation is that if you are reported missing in a low land area, are properly equipped, known to be fit and of sound mind then its unlikely that here will be an immediate police response or search for you.

And on a personal note I was recently intimately involved with reporting the disappearance of an adult close relative who was vulnerable and highly distressed.  There was no immediate call out of the police helicopter, no massive search parties.  In fact no immediate action at all.  Not until after about 6 hours did we receive a phone call to ask if said person was still missing.  It all resolved it self soon after without any police intervention at all.

I will be interested to see what information Hugh receives in response to his investigations.

66
New Member Introductions / Re: Hello from Edinburgh
« on: January 08, 2014, 04:35:23 PM »
Welcome to the best and friendliest forum on the internet.

67
Emergency & Backup Equipment / Re: Spot/In Reach/ PLB - balancing them
« on: January 08, 2014, 04:33:20 PM »
Hugh,

To clarify my last post.  When I posted that there was some justification for carrying a PLB in lowland areas for the lone walker I was not for one moment suggesting that one be carried for a walk through woods (presumably on a well used footpath) to the station.  I was in fact referring to remote areas in the SE and other low land parts of the UK.  Pete McK has more or less said what I was going to say using the same justifications.  But an interesting footnote is, that even though the Fens are just to the south of King's Lynn, there are parts of them where there is no mobile reception and with few visitors these areas could be considered remote.

Other areas I was thinking of are Ashdown Forest,  about 30 sq miles of wander anywhere heathland and woodland and the New Forest about 200 sq miles of the same.  Few roads through them, and even less parking where most visitors probably never wander more than 100 yds from their cars.  I too would class these area as remote, particularly for the lone walker. 

Same too for many areas of the South Downs.  Lots of interesting woodland to wander around in off path.  Even across the fields not every path sees people walking along it everyday of the week at regular intervals.  Far from it.  Many would only be used on a sunny Saturday or Sunday.  Again on that basis I would call that remote for the lone walker.

Come to think of it on a nice mid week day I have come across far more people on the paths of the Snowdon Horseshoe than I have on the more popular parts of the Southdowns on a similarly nice mid week.

68
Emergency & Backup Equipment / Re: Spot/In Reach/ PLB - balancing them
« on: January 05, 2014, 10:06:30 AM »
Just a further thought on PLBs

Before you can declare them operational you are required to register them with your national rescue co-ordination authority.  In the UK that is the Maritime Coastguard Agency.  Part of the required information is to advise emergency contact details.

For my self I stated For next of kin and medical details call Cram Alert ID on  01207 856 0444 and quote emergency ID number  - - - - .

See this topic for information on Cram Alert http://micronavigation.com/forum/index.php?topic=413.0

This way I figure responders will have all the information they need to have about me when they find me rather than having the time delaying job of trying to extract it from me - no mean task if I am unconscious, or incoherent and confused.

69
Emergency & Backup Equipment / Re: Spot/In Reach/ PLB - balancing them
« on: January 02, 2014, 05:40:52 PM »
Hence I carry a Fast Find Ranger PLB.

I've got one of them.  And I carry it too.  Bought it after seeing Lyle's post and very instructive video on the subject.

So what is my logic for carrying yet another expensive techno gadget?  OK so I spend quite a lot of my time walking by myself in the overpopulated South East.  Overpopulated the South East might be but contrary to popular belief the woods and Downs and fields most certainly do not resemble the concourse of Victoria Station on a weekday morning.  No not even on a nice sunny summers Sunday afternoon they don't.  Far from it.

In fact one can go for miles and hours and not see another soul, particularly on week days in winter when the weather is rough.  Also in this overpopulated neck of the woods when police and search parties are looking for missing persons and worse it can take them days to locate a body.  Sometimes its just the unfortunate luck of a random dog walker to find a body weeks after a person has been posted missing presumed murdered. In one infamously tragic case the body was accidentally found by a dog walker just on the field side of a hedgerow running along a busy main road.  All some 6 days after the person was reported missing and a massive publicity campaign to boot. The body had lain there for all of those 6 days.

So bearing all that in mind I reason that should I be unfortunate enough to have a mishap in a wood or remote field my best chance of being found alive is to fire off my PLB.  Should I be conscious and able enough of course to perform the act.

Having said that they would most certainly be an extravagant luxury if with a group in the South East.  Given that mobile phone signals are not that available, in fact non-existent in some quite large areas, in the countryside of the South East balanced by the fact that a farm house or roadway is probably never more than 30 minutes away.  Then someone can always walk out and raise the alarm and provide details of position etc.  That is assuming of course someone in the group has a map with them and someone in the group knows how to fix a position as well as determine a map reference.

Naturally in mountainous areas I do carry it irrespective of whom I am with.

As an aside, recently, in between chewing a sandwich on top of a Dolomite, I was chatting with an Australian Lady who was associated with the management of the National Parks in NSW.  The conversation got around to PLBs.  (I think she spotted said gadget lurking in the top of my rucksack).  Any way she advised that people going into the parks are required - or was it advised (can't quite remember - maybe Moonman can advise) - to take PLBs with them.  Obviously too many people get lost in them there places with tragic consequence.

70
New Member Introductions / Re: Hello from Moray
« on: January 01, 2014, 01:47:05 PM »
Andy,

Thanks very informative.  I think you are going to be great asset to this forum.

71
New Member Introductions / Re: Hello from Moray
« on: January 01, 2014, 12:18:10 PM »
Oakleaf wrote - - possibly me, but very few public figures on outdoor front seem to get right balance of freedom and safety.  There's only one TV Survival 'personality' that mentions PLB type devices - frankly striking me as bizarre

As your starter for 10  :)  right balance of freedom and safety  This crops up in passing on the forum from time to time and we all have our opinions and limits based on our experience, training and levels of intrepidness.  Would genuinely appreciate to her your expanded views.

And in respect of PLBs, just for clarification as your post doesn't make it clear, are you for or against them?

Thanks

72
General Discussion / Re: A little history and a useful tip
« on: January 01, 2014, 11:02:06 AM »
Nice one Adi!   :D

73
General Discussion / Re: A little history and a useful tip
« on: December 31, 2013, 05:33:52 PM »
Lyle, I applaud your back up strategy.  When I am auditing companies that is the typical sort of strategy I am looking for. 

Overcautious, maybe, but losing the labours of hard work is I think a great problem.   Not in the least are you being overcautious.  The bitter experience of loosing work on a failed machine is a sure fire way of motivating oneself to adopt robust back up strategies.   I have had a couple of external back-up drives fail on me so I too now use two and have software that backs up the computer every hour.

74
New Member Introductions / Re: Hello from Moray
« on: December 30, 2013, 06:38:39 PM »
Hi Oakleaf, welcome to a great forum for all things navigational.

75
Maps / Re: Explorers and Landrangers
« on: December 29, 2013, 10:05:57 AM »
CP wrote:

I'm of the opinion that it's good to be able to use a multitude of techniques, and choose the technique, or set of complementary techniques to suit the navigation task in hand.  Like Wally, I try to discourage over-reliance on the compass to merely set a map, and encourage my DofE students to look around them, and set the map based on where they've just come from, and what's around them.  But we do need to strike a balance between techniques, to ensure they're competent in all.

This goes back to the Seven Safe Practices thread I started.

http://micronavigation.com/forum/index.php?topic=619.msg4452#new

In particular item 2.

Multiple Choices - Safety in Numbers.

There are numerous methods of fixing your position / navigating, ancient and modern.  Use them, but know each has its strengths and weaknesses. No one system has proven to be entirely good enough on it's own.


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