Author Topic: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series  (Read 22883 times)

Lyle Brotherton

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Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« on: January 27, 2014, 03:00:41 PM »
Got my hands this weekend on Garmin’s new GPSMAP 64 series.

Now I am a big fan of the GPSMAP62 series and recommend it to the Mountain Rescue Team’s I train, Cairngorm MRT being the last to equip their responders with them, so for me to swap this new unit has to be knock-out.

Garmin, who frankly are useless at marketing, make a big thing about it receiving both GPS & GLONASS, which considering this offering has been in their eTrex models for over a year is pretty poor reflection that they did not update the GNSS chipset on the 62 series still on sale, so yes it is an advance. Garmin claim you get a position fix 20% faster, not a great bonus, the more important thing is that you have more satellites to receive the data from so in areas where reception is restricted this is a benefit.

They have upped the internal memory - 4GB for 64/64s and 8GB for 64st – which is still not great and there is a microSD card slot, but it can only take a 16GB card.

The stuff that really interested me was that this handheld satnav has smartphone connectivity for LiveTrack and Smart Notification. But as you read thru their marketing blurb all these features do is report your location in real time on a Garmin webpage, which your smartphone can do anyway and allow you to receive emails, texts and alerts on the device so you can keep your smartphone dry.

 So, the only real difference between the 62 series and the 64 series is the latter’s ability to receive GLONASS satellite broadcasts and given the already high performance of the quadrifilar helix antenna on both models and that their GNSS chipsets are high-sensitivity using predictive ephemeris, it is not worth the extra money.

My advice would be to buy a 62 series, which will drop significantly in price, when these new models are launched
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

sammyh20

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 12:34:28 PM »
Hi been looking at the garmin gps map 62 on ebay ...are these a better option than the satmap active 10?...cheers

Lyle Brotherton

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 12:41:54 PM »
Immeasurably better Sammy. (Elsewhere on this forum the problems with the Satmap product are detailed).
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

captain paranoia

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 06:46:16 PM »
> Elsewhere on this forum the problems with the Satmap product are detailed

Go on, Lyle, give us a clue...  ;)

I was going to edit your post to add a link, but the search function doesn't come up with anything that looks negative...

Lyle Brotherton

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2014, 09:45:23 AM »
You are right Captain; I have made passing comment in a few posts about the lack of waterproofing on the Satmap Active 10+ but have not written a more comprehensive review. So to rectify this:

I first got my hands on a very early Satmap 10 back in October 2007. 42 Commando had some on trial and we were using them on a navigation exercise on Dartmoor. It was not an auspicious start, with 3 of the 5 units failing because of software glitches which caused the screen to freeze and of the remaining 2 which did function, the USB connector at the base of the unit snapped when we were connecting it to a laptop to update the software. I later learned that pressure from the venture capitalists (creatures that swim in the Pacific Ocean and have a grey triangular dorsal fin) who had invested in the business led to the introduction of the unit too early in its development.

Satmap had been started by three individuals, an ex SAS guy, RAF Jaguar pilot and a financial backing entrepreneur; A British company, ex-military personnel, a really good combination if you are going to build a satnav to compete with the market giants, Garmin.

I contacted Satmap and offered to help them develop their unit free of charge. Through this got to know the MD, Richard Calthrop-Owen (the ex-RAF pilot) quite well, a really descent guy. They worked hard to get their units into Mountain Rescue so they could use this as a product endorsement and I demonstrated the A10+s, along with the Garmin 60Csx, to the teams I was instructing (I had and still do not have any commercial links with either of these firms).

Development from the A10 to the A10+ was slow and software continued to be an issue, both in functionality and bugs, the file system did not use the gpx convention, battery life, but by far the biggest problem with the unit was it was not waterproof. The firm’s market blurb about battery life and waterproofness was frankly misleading; the stated 50hrs use in reality was 8-10hrs at best, the blurb about it being waterproof was simply incorrect. To rectify these problems the firm changed the blurb about battery life and introduced the Boot, a big rubber container into which you put your satnav, this boot made the unit very clumsy to use with gloves on.

I took the unit with me when I was working with the Swiss Mountain Rescue teams and discovered another problem, the screen was not visible in the very bright condition of snow and clear skies with sunshine – something I had not experienced in Scotland - quelle surprise  :o

The might of Garmin in R&D was leaving the A10+ behind, sales were falling for them and I understand that the company came close to going under, shedding staff, including Richard, his Brother-in-Law, Howard, took over the running of the firm. I decided to stop demonstrating the units to MRT not only because of the ongoing waterproof issue but also because if the firm went bust the units would have no backup.

As a firm they were really great people to deal with and a British business, just their product was poor, in contrast to Garmin who are an arrogant firm to deal with yet manufacture some really good handheld satnavs.

I think it is sad that they didn’t come out on top. 

The posts I referred to are:
http://micronavigation.com/forum/index.php?topic=508.msg3610#msg3610
http://micronavigation.com/forum/index.php?topic=310.msg2696#msg2696
http://micronavigation.com/forum/index.php?topic=138.msg776#msg776
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

Lost Soul

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 10:53:59 AM »
As an owner of a Satmap Active 10 I am sorry but I disagree with you Lyle.  I works fine for me.  With due respect your experiences were some 7 years ago.  Since then the product has been developed and has moved on.  I believe you will find that the software issues have been resolved.  Also the company's product support service is first class and personal.

I must admit that I have not exactly used it in the same environments that you have.  Commandos on Dartmoor, Swiss MRT.  However, the first outing I had with it was on Hadrian's Wall in one hell of a storm.  Yes it got wet and so did I.  The only place water ingressed was between the removable cover screen and main screen. 

When I I got to somewhere dry (Pub) I just removed the cover screen dried the affected screen parts with my hankie reassembled and away we went.  Since then I have invested in a rubber boot.  OK its a bit more bulky but it does the job.  Yes with boot in place I can be a bit fiddly to use whilst wearing gloves.  As can all of the navigation gadgets and toys we take with us.  It rather depends on the thickness of your gloves as to how much difficulty you are creating for yourself.

In terms of battery life I can easily get a couple of days use out of it before deciding to recharge it.

Any way I am happy with it.  It does what I want and therefore have no hesitation in recommending to any Hill Walker.

Lyle Brotherton

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 05:24:49 PM »
Good point Lost Soul and it is really good to know that the product has advocates who are satisfied customers, plus as you quite rightly say, horses for courses:)
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

captain paranoia

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 06:49:22 PM »
I've tracked the progress of the SatMap Active 10 since its launch, and my conclusion is that, as Lyle suggests, it was launched prematurely, and, when launched, did not have the features that the original data sheet claimed it would have.

Sadly, my suspicion is that they either had inadequate programmer resources, or resources that weren't up to the job.  It took far too long for many of the promised features to be added; I think Apple Mac compatibility took about four years to finally emerge.  Compare the software development timescales with those of the various freeware apps (many of which are single developers), for instance.

I think there were also some poor initial design decisions, regarding things like firmware upgrade and map loading, both of which are still restricted to SD cards, whereas they should both be possible via USB (the original spec said USB could be used to connect to internet and download maps).

Looking at the current user manual, it appears that most of the bugs have finally been ironed out (barring the above issues), but there are still some things lurking like a flickering screen being considered 'normal'; a known power supply issue, yes, but 'normal behaviour' - no.

The coming Active 12 still only has an HVGA (320x480) resolution screen; the Siemens LOOX N560 I've been using since 2009 has a full VGA screen (running some bespoke software written by a colleague).  And the LOOX is obsolete (it was when  I bought it...).  It will also be interesting to see what operating system the Active 12 uses; the Active 10 uses Windows CE (according to the data sheet; maybe they meant Windows Mobile...), which is long dead, and even its successor, Windows MobileX.X was declared dead in 2010..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile

Callum

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2014, 10:03:04 AM »
I liked my Satmap Active 10+ and when water did ingress and stop my active 10+ from functioning, we have just under 4500mm of rain where I live  :-[ As you say Lost Soul the staff at Satmap were brilliant in every way and they refurbished my satnav, I only paid for postage. Some of our rain turns to snow and in the winter of three years ago the screen problem was a limitation, but not a show stopper. The Active 10+ was my mainstay and an old Etrex my backup and this would have remained so were it not for the Active 10+ inexplicably stopping working altogether, not water ingress this time. When it was back with the manufacturers to be repaired again, I borrowed a GPSMAP62t and after using it liked its functionality more, especially with Google Earth and Memory Map, moreover, its field functions were more intuitive and more comprehensive. I sold the Satmap on Ebay and got a good price for it and bought the Garmin.

Lost Soul

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2014, 04:28:44 PM »
I hear what you say Troops but I am not sure that knowing what the operating system is and how old it might be and all that has any bearing on what it is telling the user.  However, the Active 10 works for me.  I find it accurate, useable and reliable.  I put the appropriate SD card into the Active 10 and turn it on, it gets a fix and indicates my position.  As I shuffle off it keeps pace with me instantaneously updating my position whilst at the same time recording my route taken.  If I need to get to some place specific it shows me the way.

I too had a Siemens LOOX N560.  Useful bit of kit, ran Memory Map on it.  Great display.  Unfortunately after a couple of years it suffered some terminal internal problem and died.  At first I was concerned about the Active 10s coarser screen display.  In practice it makes no difference.  I normally use OS 25K maps enlarged via the gadget to 12.5K.   All very readable and useable, no complaints.  And I have not noticed any flicker on the display.

I guess like Callum did I will keep going with it until the time comes that it lets me down and a replacement is called for.  At that point I'll look around and no doubt ask for some advice.

 

krenaud

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2014, 09:22:16 PM »
Lyle, it is obvious you like the 62/64-series navigators. Now that touch screens have replaced buttons in other products, what makes you prefer 6x over say the Oregon series?

Lyle Brotherton

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2014, 04:19:45 PM »
Four things specifically Krenaud:

1. Buttons - for me these are a failsafe as they can be used in all weathers and whilst wearing gloves.
2. The Quadrifilar Helix Antenna, because they will receive satellite signals horizontal, vertical and clockwise circular from all directions, plus their gain is generally higher, especially in the Garmin models, than their silicon patch antenna.
3. Robustness - the screens on consumer handheld satnavs are the most vulnerable area prone to physically breakage, the 60 series smaller screen reduces this risk.
4. Familiarity! When Garmin first launched their 60csx I took this to the Antarctic along with an eTrex H and I still love both these pieces of kit. The eTrex H, now probably only worth around Ł35, is still a mainstay for my navigation. When I start from a position unknown to me or in an areas which could be dangerous I always waypoint it with this eTrex, which then is switched off and goes back into my rucksack as my satnav backup.
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

Pete McK

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2014, 12:40:51 PM »
There is an old saying which i know you will be aware of Lost Soul (and one to which I try and adhere, not always successfully) 'If it ain't bust don't try to fix it' and it seems to me the A10 works for you:)

Lost Soul

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2014, 12:57:34 PM »
I agree Pete.

Angle of Repose

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Re: Garmin's new handheld satnav, the GPSMAP 64 series
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2014, 02:00:35 PM »
I'm in the market for a new GPS so this thread is timely.
I like the looks of the Foretrex 401 for it's simplicity, however no maps.

I really like the 62's custom map capabilities. That looks like some real potential for some really cool custom maps and overlays.
I'm with Lyle on the buttons. I am currently using a Garmin Dakota 20 and hate the touch screen interface.
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