Author Topic: Azimuth or Bearing  (Read 27793 times)

Barry G

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2012, 05:13:41 PM »
That would be like shooting at sound!!
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Lyle Brotherton

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2012, 05:14:45 PM »
No, that would have been more accurate Barry!
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adi

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2012, 05:15:08 PM »
A system of bearings has to be simple to use on the battle field often whilst under fire. The maths involved of placing a round on a target 20 km away is quite staggering and before computers had to be worked out by paper and pencil. Mils is simple and for many squadies is more simple than degrees.

Artillery is an area weapon so accuracy is not that important.   
"We do not belong to those who only get their thought from books, or at the prompting of books - it is our custom to think in the open air, walking, leaping, climbing or dancing, of lonesome mountains by preference, or close to the sea, where even the paths become thoughtful." Friedrich Nietzsche

Lyle Brotherton

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2012, 05:17:43 PM »
Typical gunner, it's different when the shells are landing around you:)
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adi

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2012, 05:19:51 PM »
Wish you had been providing Artillary support Adi, instead of 1st Sgt. Mulligan, he used the main Cardinals only  ;)

To Artillery? or to the Mortars Lyle? He would have to be stood next the the guns to be any where near right to us cardinals.

Most Infantry don't realise that the Mortars are not Artillery and that Artillery is many more time more complicated. Mortars are basically a line of sight weapon although they are great a shooting over things.   
"We do not belong to those who only get their thought from books, or at the prompting of books - it is our custom to think in the open air, walking, leaping, climbing or dancing, of lonesome mountains by preference, or close to the sea, where even the paths become thoughtful." Friedrich Nietzsche

adi

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2012, 05:23:04 PM »
Hay mate you know I know how true it is although they were not Artillery rounds but 500 and 1000 lbs bombs!

Us OP's lived with in the ring of danger close!
"We do not belong to those who only get their thought from books, or at the prompting of books - it is our custom to think in the open air, walking, leaping, climbing or dancing, of lonesome mountains by preference, or close to the sea, where even the paths become thoughtful." Friedrich Nietzsche

Lyle Brotherton

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2012, 05:29:13 PM »
You know many years ago Adi, I spoke with my Grandfather, who had seen action in the Somme, and was there that fateful July 1916, where he lost three of his brothers. He told me that even when back from the front lines he would feel dizzy, from shellshock, and how months later men would literally fall down in the street, and I have often wondered, as gunners, did you get a sort of shellshock from the firing of the rounds?
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adi

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2012, 05:35:47 PM »
Yeah I could never imagine what that was like. Although during every day of the gulf war more explosive power was used then during both world war together apparently.

We watched the bombardment of Iraqi positions before we crossed the berms and we almost felt sorry for those that had to experience that for days on end. If we saw something move we would call in another fire mission or air strike!
"We do not belong to those who only get their thought from books, or at the prompting of books - it is our custom to think in the open air, walking, leaping, climbing or dancing, of lonesome mountains by preference, or close to the sea, where even the paths become thoughtful." Friedrich Nietzsche

Barry G

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2012, 06:13:35 PM »
You know after all the classroom training on navigation, we never were issued a compass, and I never actually saw the guy who had the map and compass in hand. We just followed the guy in front of us. Sooooooooooooo much for navigation skill, azimuths, angles, bearings Kentucky windage etc; etc; and the backbearing or reciprocal was called "retreat" and you'd get shot for that.
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Lyle Brotherton

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2012, 06:42:42 PM »
Barry I wish that I had had the honour to serve with you. The USMC have always had my utmost respect - I was fortunate enough to work with, and befriend a terrific guy, Sgt Brad Hand, who after a Saturday night in Union Street in Plymouth, England, with me, declared it was the most dangerous place he had ever visited - Happy Days :)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 06:46:56 PM by Lyle Brotherton »
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Lost Soul

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2012, 07:21:05 PM »
Fascinating information.  After having read Lyles explanation of Mils I had a quick trawl on the internet and found this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_mil which is quite informative and rather fits in with the general drift of Adi's (always) enthusiatic posts.
                   
Anyway back to my question of this morning.  Do the Navy use Mils for gunlaying?


adi

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2012, 07:31:00 PM »
I should be able to answer that but I don,t know I don't think they do because naval gun fire is very inaccurate, it is designed for engaging other ships and not shore engagements. Most weapons on modern ships are not gun based nowadays they rely on rocket assisted weapons for shore engagements so I think they work on degrees.

As far as I know it is only the Army and Royal Marines that use mils in our military. 
"We do not belong to those who only get their thought from books, or at the prompting of books - it is our custom to think in the open air, walking, leaping, climbing or dancing, of lonesome mountains by preference, or close to the sea, where even the paths become thoughtful." Friedrich Nietzsche

Barry G

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2012, 07:36:34 PM »
Lyle, thanks, but be careful what you wish for , for if you had served with me you'd be older than dirt and in need of a daily nap! I have had the privilage of living a wonderful life full and complete, but I rate this new adventure into the world of navigation and participation in this forum right at the top of what's good in life. To all of you guys here in the forum my advice is to keep doing what you doing because your doing it well. This endevor is "Well worth doing" (if that sounds familiar, well I stole it from what's his name) and adds sooooooooo much joy to my life!!!!!!! What were we talking about?
"What  is, is best"

Barry G

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2012, 07:44:50 PM »
I'm still waiting for my copy of "Ultimate Navigation Manual" to arrive from Amazon.com (it's been two weeks since I ordered it) and when it arrives my plan is to read, read and read some more and then unload on you guys with my newly acquired knowledge, no holding me back. "It's well worth doing"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It doesn't sound the same when I say it. Must be the acent!
"What  is, is best"

Lost Soul

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Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2012, 08:11:55 PM »
Thanks Adi.  As you said in an earlier post the Army use Mils but the Army Air Corp use degrees.  Which of course aligns with the (international) conventions for air navigation. Marine navigation from which air navigation is derived also uses degrees.  Anyway its difficult enough to manually hold a heading to a couple of degrees in an aircaft or a boat let alone trying to deal with the accuracy that mils provides.

As far as I know it is only the Army and Royal Marines that use mils in our military. 


If the Army with the exception of the AAC uses mils.  The Navy with the Exception of the RM's uses degrees.  As the RAF use degrees then it would be interesting to know what the RAF Regiment uses.  They are the RAF's ground forces, primarily airfield defence of course.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 07:58:13 PM by Lost Soul »