Author Topic: SATMAP 10  (Read 11781 times)

Rescuerkw

  • Guest
SATMAP 10
« on: May 14, 2012, 08:58:34 PM »
SATMAP 10 seems to be attracting a lot of attention. It looks and sounds the business, but has anyone given it a try and if so what do think of it?

Lyle Brotherton

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
  • Competent and safe navigation sets you free.
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2012, 08:08:02 AM »
Morning Ron,

I have extensive experience with this device, having first used the 10 working in Oct 2007, and thereafter the upgraded 10+ with several MRTs who had bought the unit.

Plus
Has a large colour screen
Display your track clearly as a series ofred dots
Is intuitive to use
Button can be used with gloves on
Uses the SiRFstar III chipset sois accuarate and reliable
With sleep mode has a good battery life
Offer regular good deals on mapping
There is a very good Route Planner and Route Share Network that functions totally online (Costs £80 - PC and Mac)
Good customer service
Is is British firm, started by a couple of ex-military guys: good on them ;)

Minus
It is not waterproof and in heavy showers water gets behind the screen. The firm has manufactured a rubber boot to enclose the unit, which prevents this, but makes its operation more difficult.
You cannot see the screen in bright sunlight
Files are not saved in GPX format (the standard interchange for all satnav (GPS) files, tracksand routes).



“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

wink

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2012, 09:12:24 PM »
Hi there had one for 2 years, fantastic piece of kit, the customer support is exceptional

wink

Batesy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 09:44:37 AM »
Hi all,

Further to the above comments, here's some additional info about the Satmap Active 10 (beware, it goes on a bit!).

After a couple of years casually thinking about it and months of seriously looking into it (I’m a terrible procrastinator) I have finally taken the plunge and purchased a GPS..sorry GNSS...er sorry handheld Satnav device!

I looked into the usual suspects but settled on the Satmap Active 10+

One of the primary drivers was the increasingly bothersome need to use a magnifying glass to see the finer details on maps so I was looking for a mapping device with a large screen and the ability to zoom in/out at will. I also wanted full OS mapping and proper button operation rather than touchscreen. Obviously price was a factor too!

Above the others I looked at, the Active 10+ ticked these boxes for me.

Lyle posted some pros & cons in a separate post (see above) which I also had to factor in.

So what did I get for the ~£300 I paid on Amazon – delivered in 2 days free! (Satmap site price = £370 for same bundle)
Apart from the Active 10 unit itself, the bundle contained:
•   Base mapping of the world
•   An SD card containing the whole of GB at 1:50k (OS)
•   A sturdy carry case (nylon pouch style) with lanyard
•   A  2700mAh LiPol Rechargeable Battery with car charger & multi-national wall charger
•   3 lithium AA batteries (interchangeable with the LiPol using supplied battery caddy)
•   A 1/3rd off voucher for a mapping purchase
•   USB connecting cable
•   Sync software for upload/download of files
•   File conversion software (eg convert .gpx to .map for upload)
•   Basic access to planning software (+3 months trial of premium version)

I have had the device a few days now and have not used it in anger (e.g. on a full day’s walking) but have done some small trials, including a couple of short (30mins) routes and some geocaching (using the “Go To” feature). Here are some of my findings/feelings so far...

I did one route plan on the unit itself. You move a cursor around the screen (using the handy ‘joystick’) and click to create route waypoints. The second route I planned on my Mapyx Quo software – saved as a .gpx file, converted to a .map file in the supplied file conversion software and imported onto the device with the supplied sync software. An extra step but really very easy and a matter of moments.

Following the route was easy – ‘activate’ the required map and route (simple actions) then select “Start” to start recording your track (displayed on the screen in large or small red dots – or not at all as you prefer). Select “Stop” at the end and you can choose to clear the track/log or save it (the saved file is in .map – proprietary Satmap – format but you can convert the saved file to .gpx format in the conversion software and it’s ready to upload to whatever you want to view the track in! Again, this is an extra step but, for me, it’s a solution to one of Lyle’s ‘Minus’ points.

The geocaching involved selecting some local caches from Geocaching.com, downloading the data. As I am not a Premium member, this was in basic .loc format not .gpx but was easily converted to .map format ready for the Active 10. These were displayed as POI’s on the device (options for displaying always, never unless specifically selected or by proximity). Select the POI, click on it to make it a ‘Go To’ and the device guides you there with straight-line route on the map display and by a pointer/distance screen.

Re the compass/pointer – there are both electronic compass (only two-axis which means I have to hold it horizontal to work properly...but that just feels like using a normal compass so is not a worry for me) and a GPS compass. Satmap say the electronic compass is used when stationary and the GPS compass is best when in motion. The unit switches between the two at a configurable speed of motion (or not at all if you prefer). I didn’t really use the compass screen and mainly focussed on the pointer (which ‘points’ at the next waypoint/Go To (depending on what you are doing). The pointer needle did seem to jump around a bit on one of my mini-routes (my very first outing) but maybe I was doing something wrong. This is something I’ll have to check out more thoroughly. Another outstanding point is that I haven’t located a “stop navigating to” button when I have reached a Waypoint on a route. The unit did stop itself and automatically move onto the next shortly (about 15-20m) after passing a Waypoint but that presupposes that you know in which direction you are supposed to go next! Another thing to review and report back on (there are so many settings on this thing maybe I have missed this one so far).

Getting a fix was pretty quick (max a couple of minutes so not an issue for me) and a reasonable fix was maintained even under heavy(ish) tree cover (geocachers seem to like hiding things in woods!). The best displayed accuracy so far was 2m (7 satellites fixed) and 5m seems to be standard.

Today I was out with the Satmap in bright sunshine and the screen was, as Lyle suggested, a little unclear. I found, however, a setting option for the backlight called ‘Sun Filter’ and, when applied, it did improve clarity of display significantly enough for me to be satisfied (Satmap do warn, however, that “With the Sun Filter your screen loses some intricate map details in order to enhance the visibility of the map in sunlight” so that’s something to properly check out.  Beyond that I also found a ‘Night Filter’ which turns the whole screen red, presumably to protect night-vision! Another thing to test at some point.

I was concerned with Lyle’s Minus comment regarding waterproofness (only IP65 rather than 7) and indeed read other comments about this in other internet reviews. Someone I know (who is a Mountain Leader) has an Active 10 and swears by it saying it is rain-proof. To protect my investment (as I had already decided to get the Active 10 due to other features) I went for the optional silicon protective case (or ‘rubber boot’ as Lyle calls it). This isn’t cheap at £40 but cheaper than repairing the main unit if it did leak – the case takes the waterproof rating up to IP67. They also claim it is designed to protect the Active 10 from a fall of 3m onto concrete! This case is tight fitting and quite chunky increasing the unit’s footprint (or handprint might be a better term) a little but not too much for my tastes. Personally, I didn’t find using the case interfered at all with operating the main buttons - the joystick was a little more awkward with it though, but this isn’t a control I think you’ll need too much when actually out in the field. Let’s see how that one goes. (WARNING: I opted for the orange case thinking it would offer better visibility if I left the Active 10 sitting on a rock and wandered off then had to come back looking for it. Whilst I still think this is true, it really is a very ghastly orange and I’m sure that any of the other colours would be more aesthetically pleasing! I’m debating exchanging it for something a little more discrete – customer services tell me I can happily do that).

Which brings me onto one of the best bits of this initial review – my experience dealing with the Satmap staff – or more particularly with one member of staff, a very friendly and professional lady called Rebecca (permission given to publish Rebecca’s name!). I don’t know about you but I am frequently left underwhelmed with the service I get from people on the end of phones/emails, even when you are looking to spend money with them. I mostly get the feeling that they are just going through the motions. So I was more than pleasantly surprised by Rebecca’s assistance.

I was interested in buying some additional mapping (at 1:25k scale) and, looking at Satmap’s offering, there are a multitude of options.

I have to say that some of them are quite expensive but you have to bear in mind a couple of things:

  • the fact that many Satmap maps are now what they call ‘toggleable’ which means that the SD card contains both (for GB) either BOTH OS 1:50k and 1:25k or BOTH 1:25k and 1:10k (for “orientation in urban environments”) for the area selected and you can switch between them at a single button press rather than have to zoom in/out to switch scale.
  • what it would cost to buy equivalent paper maps at both scales
Anyway, I was asking Rebecca some questions about what my options were including what I could use my 1/3rd off voucher for etc. Rebecca replied in a very friendly and comprehensive way but what I’d asked for wasn’t possible. Ok, I thought, that’s the end of that, better think again.

A few hours later, a new email pinged into my inbox, from Rebecca, saying “I’ve been thinking about what you said you need and here are a few ideas about how you might get near to your solution”. The ideas were not exactly what I wanted but the fact that she had taken the time and trouble to ponder on my requirements and bother to follow it up with creative suggestions impressed me.

Next day, whilst still thinking about it (I did say I was a terrible procrastinator!) yet another email from Rebecca arrived saying she’d been talking about my requirements with her mapping team and here was yet another option, a bit closer to my needs. This level of thought and customer care I feel is fantastic and very unusual (I compare it to my experience with Garmin UK – I have a GPS running watch – and their perfunctory levels of support). Regardless of any minor shortcomings of the Active 10 v other devices (and, of course, I feel the Active 10 has advantages over other devices too) I’m happy that I have chosen the right company to support me going forwards!

In the end, I actually got better than I originally wanted! I was looking for the Peak District at 1:25k. The standard offering of the Peak District National Park was obviously an option but I wanted something that extended a little to the west (thus covering the area between where I live and the Peak District border. Rebecca offered me the Peak District map but customised to include the additional area I wanted (small but significant to me) and to include the 1:10k ‘layer’ on top of the 1:25k & 1:50k layers (thus 3 toggelable scales all on one SD card and all for the same price as the standard Peak District offering – and I was still able to then use my 1/3rd off voucher to reduce the price! Bargain!!

Also bear in mind that Satmap have periodic Flash Sales where, for that day only, selected products are offered at 50% off! Yesterday you could have got:

•   Brecon Beacons National Park (at 1:25k & 1:50k)
•   Coast to Coast National Trail (at 1:25k & 1:50k)
•   Whole of Germany (at 1:50k)

...each at 50% off.

Sorry this has been so long and a bit rambling, especially the last bit. As my experience with the Active 10 increases, I will (probably) post some more if people seem interested. In the meantime, I hope the comments so far may help anyone who has decided they want to invest in a handheld satnav but have yet to settle on which device to get.

Tara for now!
Steve

Lyle Brotherton

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
  • Competent and safe navigation sets you free.
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 11:46:22 AM »
Outstanding review Steve!
Personally I would really like to see this firm do well, for the reasons mentioned in my previous post in this thread (or is it thread on this post?)

I plan to speak with Howard (MD of Satmap) today and will report back here.
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

Batesy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 01:34:30 PM »
Thanks Lyle.

I should point out that, despite the review sounding a bit like an advert for Satmap, I have no affiliation with them at all (other than as a new customer of course).

I tried to be as objective as possible (hence there are a couple of question marks still to be resolved) but, based on experience to date, I want to give credit where credit is due!

Just to clear that one up in case anyone was wondering! :)

cheers,
Steve

Lost Soul

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 04:12:25 PM »
I got one of them too.  Had it for a couple of years now.  Magic bit of kit.  Quite happily concur with Batesy's review.  And like all of these things once you get to use it some of the potential downsides don't seem so down after all.  As Batesy says customer support is excellent.  Fully agree, it really is top notch.  If only some other companies were half as good, then that would be a big improvement for them.

Lyle to pick up on a couple of your cons.  Does not save files in .gpx format.  Correct but if you use thier SatSync PC utility to transfer routes etc to and from your computer you have via that interface the option of converting your files to .gpx format for stoarge on your computer.  Which is what I do, because that is the only way I can open them up in Memory Map.

As for rain getting in behind the screen.  I found that it wasn't getting in behind the screen itself but behind the replaceable cover screen.  Yikkes! it really freaked me out the first time it happened.  However, I have solved the problem by using the waterproof case you mention.  Yes it does make use of the gadget a bit more difficult but not that difficult.  Its just that the buttons and joystick thingy need to be pushed and prodded a bit more firmly.  You get used to it.

I too have a ghastly orange case but that was a deliberate choice.  Easy to spot if I drop it someplace.

Batesy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 08:35:28 PM »
Hi,

“Another outstanding point is that I haven’t located a “stop navigating to” button when I have reached a Waypoint on a route. The unit did stop itself and automatically move onto the next shortly (about 15-20m) after passing a Waypoint but that presupposes that you know in which direction you are supposed to go next! Another thing to review and report back on (there are so many settings on this thing maybe I have missed this one so far)”

Further to this comment (above), I have contacted the Satmap support team for clarification and they informed me that there isn’t, currently, a specific ‘stop navigating to’ function on the Active 10. Their comment about this was...

“The experience you’ve had with the pointer does reflect the system at the moment in that it does prefer you to walk right over the planned waypoint in order to move on to the next position. For this reason we tend to recommend that people navigate using the map rather than the pointer as this plus a little user interpretation will result in a better user experience.
The way we tend to look at it as being a shame to limit yourself to just the pointer after spend a lot of money on the maps which have the real value. “.


I feel that this is a fair point as it would be wrong to blindly follow the electronic pointer without some awareness of where you are/where you are going by reference to map/compass (whether electronic or paper/magnetic).

I posed the question of whether they conceived adding such a feature into the Active 10 system and received the following reply...

“We are always looking to update our systems and improve the user experience. However having spoken with the development team I believe the approach will be to spend time developing some exciting new features that will ultimately make the pointer redundant or integrated in a slightly different way. We can’t say too much too early as always but we are looking forward to the updates becoming available”.

Exciting news and something for Active 10 owners to look forwards to!  :D I will keep you posted on developments in this respect.

Lyle Brotherton

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
  • Competent and safe navigation sets you free.
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 01:58:22 PM »
“We are always looking to update our systems and improve the user experience. However having spoken with the development team I believe the approach will be to spend time developing some exciting new features that will ultimately make the pointer redundant or integrated in a slightly different way. We can’t say too much too early as always but we are looking forward to the updates becoming available”.

Sounds really interesting Batesy, any further news?
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

captain paranoia

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 06:29:25 PM »
"The experience you’ve had with the pointer does reflect the system at the moment in that it does prefer you to walk right over the planned waypoint in order to move on to the next position. For this reason we tend to recommend that people navigate using the map rather than the pointer as this plus a little user interpretation will result in a better user experience. "

That's a strange response.

If you're following a pre-entered route, and the device is telling you which direction to go to get to your next waypoint, then it needs to know when you've 'passed' a waypoint, so that it can move on the the next.  This is something I realised when thinking up ideas for a personal navigator app for my Psion way back in 1996; my scribbled notes say:

  • automatically moves on to next waypoint
    • could be tricky; how do we decide to skip a bypassed waypoint?

Since GPS is a statistical position fix, and there's significant doubt over the accuracy of a route prepared using a map (due to the map errors and map reading/waypoint entry), there must be a means to allow for the fact that you may not be able to "walk right over the planned waypoint".  How 'right over' do I need to go?  1m?  5m?  Most other GPS units with route-following capability offer a configurable 'near enough' figure.

There are drawbacks to automatic waypoint 'hit', as well.  If you really want to go to a waypoint*, then it's not much good if the thing says you've reached it (prematurely), and then starts directing you to the next point.  If you're on a route that doubles back on itself (e.g. a narrow valley or stream bed you wish to cross by going upstream), the thing can skip past a number of waypoints and decide you've already crossed the river.  These can be addressed to some extent by playing with the 'near enough' figure, but, ideally, the thing will have a 'skip back/skip to' waypoint control.

"I believe the approach will be to spend time developing some exciting new features that will ultimately make the pointer redundant or integrated in a slightly different way."

I'm afraid I've heard rather a lot of 'jam tomorrow' from SatMap (Apple compatability, anyone...?).  Modifying the code to add a waypoint check radius should hardly be rocket science, given that it must already be checking the waypoint position against current position.  Neither should configuring said feature.

* That brings us to the issue of the distinction between a waypoint (i.e. some point along your way where you make a navigation decision or direction change) and a point-of-interest (POI), or rendezvous point (RP).  POIs and RPs should be distinct from waypoints, and the receiver shouldn't try to direct you to the next WP until you say you're done with the POI or RP.  I don't think the current GPX schema allows for the concept of POIs and RPs... 

http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/

"wptType    wpt represents a waypoint, point of interest, or named feature on a map."

Maybe the ptType could be pressed into service:

"ptType   A geographic point with optional elevation and time. Available for use by other schemas."

Batesy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2012, 07:14:27 PM »
“Sounds really interesting Batesy, any further news?”

I wish I had an inside track on this Lyle but I'm just another customer so guess I will only hear of the updates when they are announced - whenever that is (their earlier email implied it might be soon but who knows!). I'll keep a look out on the Satmap site and post as soon as anything appears! Given Captain Paranoia’s comments above, however, maybe we will have a wait!

Further to my earlier review, however, I have now used the Active 10 in earnest a couple of times on full day walks so have some more experience of what it (and it's supporting applications) offer.

My son & I have embarked upon doing the Pennine Way but only in bits & pieces initially (can't afford to take 3 weeks+ out!). So we have done the first weekend, day 1 Edale to Crowden, day 2 Crowden to Standedge.

The first step was to plot the route.
For this I used two systems (as a comparative test):
  • Mapyx Quo (which I have historically used)
  • Satmap Xpedition online application (of which I have a 3 month free trial due to purchasing the active 10).
Obviously, I am already fairly adept using Quo but, after a bit of playing around, Xpedition proved to be very simple to use and I was very quickly able to produce a route equivalent to the one on Quo - a simple matter of clicking on the map to create Waypoints then the system joins up the dots! ;)

Full version Xpedition offers a choice of using OS mapping, automatically selecting the scale as you zoom in/out, Open Street/Cycle mapping and Aerial - I believe this is Bing Maps (there is also mapping for most of Europe but I didn't look at that). The zoom in/out is in fixed steps unlike Quo where you can select a % zoom. Likewise, the selection of map scale is automatic wheras in Quo you can force the app to stay on, say, 1:25k regardless of zoom level (but if you zoom out too far this can catastrophically slow Quo down). Other than Routes, Xpedition also lets you create Points-of-Interest (POI), Lines-of-Interest (LOI) and Areas-of-Interest (AOI). You can produce a Route Card for your Route and view a Route Profile - save either/both or print. save your Route/s (and other stuff if you create it) online in the MyXpedition area and also download a .gpx to your computer...and this is what I did.

Second was to load the .gps Routes to the Active 10. As I mentioned in the original review, this takes two steps rather than one (ie convert the .gps to .map format in the computer app provided then to upload to the Active 10 itself. 2 steps but it took me approxmately 2 minutes (less really) so I have no issues with this process.

Third, to ensure fully charged batteries were installed in the device!

Prep done, next was to do the walking (and navigating).

I switched the Active 10 on just outside Coopers Cafe in Edale and achieved a good fix in a couple of minutes. I then had to 'activate' the route for the day (another minute) and then find the Log screen on the device and press the "Start" key to tell the Active 10 to start recording a track for me (another 30 seconds). So, from switch on to starting walking took a mere 3-5 minutes. Happy with that.

The Active 10 screen showed my Waypoints (with a blue, semi-transparent line connecting them) and my current position by cross-hairs in a circle. After a little progress, small red circles were plotted to indicate the track we had actually followed. Superb, loved it.
To preserve battery life, I had the screen shut-down option set to 30 seconds - usually sufficient for a quick check that you are on the right route (red cross hairs on blue line!) but this can be simply changed if you need the screen to stay active for longer (e.g. for tricky navigation). A single button press wakens the screen immediately and I experienced no loss of fix throughout.

On the first day, we enjoyed great weather so navigation across Kinder & Bleaklow was fairly easy, especially now you can follow the 'yellow brick road' (stone slab walkways) across much of it, and I am quite familiar with the area. This meant that I didn't need to keep the Active 10 active (!) for some periods but I did keep firing it up just to keep checking – consequently there were lots of 30 second bursts.

So how did the batteries fare? On insertion, the battery life symbol on the screen showed as a solid block. At the end of the day, after some 8 hours of use, the symbol showed 2 ‘blocks’ (having passed through 4 then 3 blocks). I can’t comment on how much longer the batteries would have lasted as I used a full new set for the 2nd day route. This time, the new (pre-charged, rechargeable 2400 mAh NiMH) batteries showed 4 blocks on insertion – so not quite fully charged! – and were down to 2 blocks after 6 or so hours. Maybe each ‘block’ would provide 2-3 hours of power? Time & experience will tell more about that.

At the end of each day, I was able to save the track file and later upload it to Quo and Xpedition to see exactly where we had been. The Active 10 also provides a Log summary showing total distance, ascent, descent and other stats – viewable at any point during the route not just at the end – don’t think you can download it although you can save it on the device (given enough space).

As the navigation was so easy, there was no real need to use the onboard compass. On the few occasions when I checked it, the ‘needle’ was pointing in the correct direction but I wouldn’t call it a comprehensive test. Similarly, I didn’t face any issue by not being able to ‘stop navigating to Waypoint’ as we were always sufficiently on track and aware of where we were not to have to worry about hitting a Waypoint exactly (although again, I noteCaptain Paranoia’s comments with interest!).

No doubt that more severe tests will come as we venture into more unfamiliar territory, with more vague (if any) paths and a bit of low cloud to confuse matters!

On day 2 we actually did have some brief spells of heavy rain but, despite the concerns expressed, no water got in anywhere (that I’m aware of at least) although I was particularly careful to try to keep as much rain off as possible.

I’m not sure if there is anything else to add at this point. It’s so far so good - I am delighted with the performance and features of the Active 10 and looking forwards very much to giving it another go soon (which will be Sept 15th on the next day of the Pennine Way – Standedge to Hebden Bridge). I’ll add anything new after that.

Cheers all!

captain paranoia

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2012, 01:59:11 PM »
> As the navigation was so easy, there was no real need to use the onboard compass. On the few occasions when I checked it, the ‘needle’ was pointing in the correct direction but I wouldn’t call it a comprehensive test.

Do you mean you were simply following the path on the ground, and not using the SatMap to navigate with?  It's when you have to use something to actually navigate with that you find out if it works...

It certainly sounds as if the SatMap unit was automatically advancing waypoints, unless you just happened to walk 'right over' them, so maybe not as much of an issue as I thought.  I might ask the wider user base on OM...

Batesy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: SATMAP 10
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2012, 03:17:30 PM »
>Do you mean you were simply following the path on the ground, and not using the SatMap to navigate with? It's when you have to use something to actually navigate with that you find out if it works...

Yep Captain, there are long stretches of the Pennine Way that don’t require micro-navigation (e.g. following the edge path on Kinder) especially when you know the area well and visibility is unrestricted. In the lowland areas there are a proliferation of way markers & signposts etc whilst on the upland plateaus, especially on Kinder and Black Hill, the ‘Way’ now follows stone slab walkways across the soggier bits (see photo). Of course, you need to be sure you are going in the right direction but, once on the walkway, it typically just means following it to the end (e.g. the long stretch between Mill Hill and the A57). On this occasion, I mainly used the unit to simply relate map to ground to confirm our progress along the route.

>It certainly sounds as if the SatMap unit was automatically advancing waypoints, unless you just happened to walk 'right over' them, so maybe not as much of an issue as I thought. I might ask the wider user base on OM...

The Active 10 was definitely auto-advancing waypoints and we certainly didn’t walk right over all the points (we deliberately deviated a little - some metres - from the route at some points for one reason or another) as the recorded trail showed. Just how and when the unit decided to advance, however, I couldn’t say! Not sure what OM is but I'd be interested any any comments you have after asking them!

I should also point out that my primary intention on this occasion was not to comprehensively test the unit but to enjoy the outing! Nor am I claiming that the Active 10 is infallible or superior to any other device (never used anything else!), more just sharing my experiences, such as they are, with using the unit in the manner I did in the hope it helps or is of interest to someone.

As to whether ‘it works’, I’d say it gave me what I needed on these occasions and under these conditions/circumstances. As I said in my earlier post, I’ll find out more as and when I get to use it in more testing conditions!