Author Topic: New lightweight stove  (Read 8060 times)

krenaud

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New lightweight stove
« on: April 15, 2014, 07:18:20 PM »
I am a happy user of the Emberlit Ti titanium wood burning stove which packs flat and weighs very little. Today they started a Kickstarter project for a smaller version which also has slots for a Trangia burner called the Emberlit FireAnt.

Kickstarter backers will get the stove at a very good price so if you are looking for a small wood stove, check it out.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1621478444/the-fireant-multi-fuel-backpacking-stove

I like being able to make small fires to cook some water or food and not leave any traces on the ground. Apart from titanium being light, it is also very fast to cool so when the fire is put out you can pack the stove together within a minute or two.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 07:27:18 PM by krenaud »

captain paranoia

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2014, 05:53:10 PM »

Lyle Brotherton

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 08:09:14 AM »
A timely thread for me, as I have been ‘intending’ to upgrade my aging Butane gas system for a long time - my periods of ‘intending’ have been known to last for years, especially when it comes to domestic DIY ;)

Any recommendations welcomed :)
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

Oakleaf

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2014, 08:25:00 AM »
So Lyle, gone are the days of living off Garibaldi for weeks on end?  ;)

I don't have one, but by all accounts the Emberlit  is very highly regarded of its type.  Depends on your intention - it is still generally quite hard to beat the convenience of Butane - but doesnt have the green credentials or long term free fuel aspect of things like Emberlit.

Most of my outdoor fire activities are with an open fire - but fairly lucky in terms of the range and type of access I have to places.  In the truck I carry a Wild Wood 'wood gas' stove - the adaptation was a finer mesh in the bottom, wind shield  and a plumbers blow torch mat to protect the ground. With cheap wood pellet animal litter ( zero feeding ) or with broken dry sticks ( limitless free supply ) it is brilliant and very effective.  It is there as a back-up in case of need and for the occasional stalking client that is interested in having fresh liver for  a field breakfast.

Other item is a Scout Kelly Kettle ( which would cook as well ). Again carried in truck - if needing a hot drink etc. In addition, if killing time  with clients out in the field it gives them something to 'play with'.  It is incredibly effective - both as a water heater and distraction/ plaything! 

Highly recommend both, but likely not what you are looking for.

krenaud

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 11:04:38 AM »
There are many good stoves out there. I liked the simplicity of the Emberlit and more importantly that it can be used without risk of embers falling on the ground. Other prefer extensibility and flexibility of stoves like the Honey Stove. A close competitor to Emberlit would be the Bushbox. (http://www.bushcraft-essentials.com/english/bushbox-outdoor-pocket-stove.html)

I use a wood burning stove for the pleasure that an open fire gives. When I'm more in a hurry, then I use my Optimus butane stove or Trangia alcohol burner.

Gear geeks can combine any of these stoves with the powerpot (http://www.thepowerpot.com/) in order to charge their phone/GPS.







captain paranoia

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 06:32:28 PM »
Lyle,

It depends what you want to use the stove for, and what sort of stove you want...

Bushcrafty or super-ultralightweight?
Found, solid, pressure liquid, liquid or gas fuel?
What cooking are you going to do?
Where are you going to use it?
How are you going to carry it?

Yes, I'm a stove (amongst other things) nerd.  I've even won a design award for one of my stoves at the Outdoors Show at the NEC... (Alpkit CoLAB09).

Oh, and here are some of my DIY stove articles:

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/gear-features/the-squeezebox-files/5644.html
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/gear-features/make-your-own-meths-burner/6227.html
http://zenstoves.net/PotStands-Conical.htm#ConeTemplates
http://zenstoves.net/PotStands-WindscreenStands.htm#Captain_Paranoias_Windscreen_PotStand_Tool

 :o
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 06:36:51 PM by captain paranoia »

Lyle Brotherton

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 10:16:41 AM »
Thanks guys, really helpful and CP your question, which is spot on, “It depends what you want to use the stove for, and what sort of stove you want...” answered thus:

Bushcrafty or super-ultralightweight?      
Super-ultralightweight

Found, solid, pressure liquid, liquid or gas fuel?   
Not fussed

What cooking are you going to do?
Boiling water only, either for a brew or pre-packed dried food; I never use anything else.

Where are you going to use it?
≤ 1200m -25°C to +35°C 

How are you going to carry it?
In my rucksack
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

captain paranoia

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 12:30:34 PM »
Okay, more questions then...

How much water do you want to boil?
Will the fuel be available in the locales you wish to use it (international geographic)?
How bulky can you cope with?
How concerned are you about speed?
How long are the trips you will use it on?

For super-ultralight, I'd suggest a homemade meths burner and conic pan support windshield.  My setup weighs 8g for the burner and 25g for the pan support, and packs into the Alpkit MyTiMug I use to heat water/cook with.  It will boil 500ml of water in about 8 minutes (depending on ambient conditions), using between 12-15ml of UK-spec meths.

Oh, and one last question: how squaddie-proof does it need to be?  Light, strong, cheap: pick any two...

Lyle Brotherton

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 12:43:09 PM »
Not often I have to correct you CP!

Nothing is squaddie proof. I remember a famous cookware firm providing a novel set of billy cans for testing, which, they claimed would survive even if strapped to The M18A1 Claymore. After only 4 weeks with squaddies, they leaked, the handles had long since disappeared and one was reminiscent of WWI shrapnel found in the fields of Flanders  ;)

How much water do you want to boil?
Max 500ml

Will the fuel be available in the locales you wish to use it (international geographic)?
Yes, Scotland

How bulky can you cope with?
I like small kit packs

How concerned are you about speed?
10 minutes or less

How long are the trips you will use it on?
Max 3 days/nights
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

captain paranoia

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 02:39:32 PM »
> Nothing is squaddie proof.

I know.  That's why I asked...  ;)

All things are relative....  Some items might last five seconds, some might last five weeks.

When I was exhibiting the SqueezeBox Stove at the NEC, various types came and had a look, and, since it's made from folded aluminium foil, some pooh-poohed the idea as not being strong enough.  Which is entirely true, if the target audience was a bunch of squaddies in a combat zone.  But it wasn't; the target audience is ultralight backpackers who have the time to be careful with their kit, and know that it's fragile and cannot be kicked around the campsite, or run over by a Warrior.

Given your answers above, I'm even more convinced that a conic stove and drinks can burner would be right up your street, provided you could find somewhere sheltered to use them (they're so light they are in danger of blowing away).

Here's are a nice example by Ultra Magnus, using my template script:






Or my MyTiMug setup:






krenaud

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2014, 03:40:38 PM »
I'm well impressed with the squeezebox stove. Very clever design.

Lyle Brotherton

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2014, 09:23:39 AM »
Looks great CP. Where can I obtain one from please?

Did you design it from scratch and what were your design criteria?
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

Callum

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2014, 02:21:28 PM »
Neat ;)

captain paranoia

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2014, 10:30:22 PM »
Well, the conic stove is my interpretation of Trail Designs' Caldera Cone, and it started with the design of the conic inner wall of the burner.  I wrote some PostScript to design the inner wall of the burner, and realised it was a mini Caldera Cone, so I modified the PostScript to design a Clone, and posted the result on a thread on OM ('The Caldera Clone').  And then improved the design and the script over four years, culminating in the versions you see above, and for which you can get a custom template script from the ZenStoves page I linked to earlier.  The OM thread celebrated its sixth birthday a few days ago.

I had seen the idea of the Caldera Cone, but have never yet seen one 'in the flesh', so all the features of my script were worked out from scratch (using long-established windshield features), using the basic concept of a truncated cone to support and shield a pan over a burner.

The Caldera Cone has a US patent which I hadn't seen until Ultra Magnus posted pictures of his clone on BPL.com, which caused a bit of a furore, with lots of people shouting 'thief' for stealing Trail Designs patent.  My script was always distributed in line with UK patent law where personal, non-commercial use is not a patent violation; it turns out that US patent law is more strict, and even personal use is a violation.  I confess that I didn't appreciate being called a thief for giving something away completely freely, in line with the generally-accepted MYOG spirit...  The thread caused a number of people to examine the patent and the prior art in detail (something I'd never had any interest in doing) and, as a result, I no longer feel the patent is valid, due to prior art dating back to 1859, and the concept of a conic windshield featuring on ZenStoves (a site devoted to MYOG stoves that was widely read at the time, including by the patent owners) at least six months prior to the patent application.  That's why I eventually let ZenSeeker publish the script on his ZenStoves website.

The tool at ZenStoves allows you to enter the size of your pan and burner, set other design options, and it will spit out a custom template.  You print this, stick it to some thick foil (0.15 to 0.25mm), cut it out, punch the holes and fold the tabs, and you have your stove.  Aluminium or titanium foil is suitable.  Oh, and the script will also design an insert to allow you to burn wood (provided you use Ti foil).

The SqueezeBox stove is all my own  work, and I think it's original.  It was intended to solve the problem of the Caldera, which didn't fit into the pan.  However, I then developed the split version of the Clone, and this fits into the pan it supports, but takes less space than the SqueezeBox.  Trail Designs make a split cone, but, bizarrely, they don't advertise it on their website.  Odd, because the most common comment I get about my script is about the benefit of the split cone 'Flissure'...  Most comments say that they think my 'Flissure' joint is better than Trail's 'Fissure' joint, but since I've not seen that, or any Caldera Cone in the flesh, I can't really compare them.  I offered my Flissure joint design to Trail Designs to use freely, but they didn't take me up on it.

The SqueezeBox Stove won Alpkit's CoLAB09 design competition, but it's quite hard to make due to the dual reversed folds.  There aren't many users, although one notable convert (and evangelist) is the Cicerone guidebook writer, Paddy Dillon.  Paddy made his own titanium version, using my design template, and uses it on his book research travels, with one or two of my conic burners.  I think the highest he's used it is 3700m on Mount Tiede.  It's also been to Iceland with him.  He says it always turns heads wherever he goes, and people always ask about it.  It usually features in the 'lightweight backpacking' lectures he's often invited to give.

One advantage of the SBS over the Caldera is that it can be used with more than one size of pot, since the pot sits on the folded 'shelf'.  The Caldera is specific to one pot only, since the pot is supported by the rim of the cone sitting snugly under the rolled rim of the pan (so the pan must have such a rim).  The SBS is also a little less fussy about being level, or knocked about, again, due to the way the pan is supported.  I also developed a 'Strata' insert to address the one-pot problem of the cone, and offered that to TD too.  Again, no response.

The design goals for both the conic stove and the SqueezeBox are light weight, light weight, to fit in the pan it supports, fuel efficiency and light weight...  They are intended as pan support and windshield, and primarily designed for use with a meths burner.

I also have a design script for the inward-jetting conic burner, using the same build techniques as my article on OM (link above).

So, that's the long answer...

The short answer to the question 'where can I get one?' is 'make your own'.  Or ask Trail Designs to build you a Fissure Cone, but it won't be as good as my version...
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 06:44:40 PM by captain paranoia »

Angle of Repose

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Re: New lightweight stove
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2014, 12:43:48 PM »
I dabbled with the alcohol stoves but didn't like them. I always ended up with alcohol on my hands and it reeked.
I switched over to a MSR pocket rocket and it has worked well. Of course, once winter comes, I will probably need something different.
Capt. Paranoia, that Squeezebox stove is way cool.  :D
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