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Messages - Egg

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91
New Techniques & Learning / Re: Videos
« on: November 11, 2011, 09:48:39 PM »
At least they had a choice of remembering you for two reasons.
Looking odd or telling them good stuff.
If it was the way you looked then they were probably the nobs?  :P

92
Plans / Re: Weekend ahead
« on: November 10, 2011, 06:57:42 PM »
Weekend off from anything that needs my navigation or teaching head.
Gardening and diy on Saturday, on Sunday doing a 20 mile ish wander with the local long distance group.
Looks like it will be ideal weather and should get a nice blast of autumn colours.

93
Reviews, Suggestions and Advice / Re: Book feedback
« on: November 10, 2011, 06:53:17 PM »
Been dipping into the book for a number of weeks now rather than reading it from cover to cover in one hit. So am definitely starting to regard it as my "one stop shop" for all things navigational.

Prior to this it would be a touch of, "I wonder what xxxx says about this?" and having to wander through a pile of books and mags to collect info and ideas. As Lyle has said, his book is a work in progress that will evolve over time and with the amount of material he must have left out we could be heading for an encyclopaedia of navigation rather than a bible.

This book was long over due, stuff that was already on the market being very limited in quality and content. I can think of only one other book, by a recent star of a tv prog, that I would recommend to anyone prior to this.

There may be things in the book that people have picked up on that are errors or whatever, but they occur in every new publication, so I've not looked at it in that light.

Coupled with this forum I hope that will grow into a great resource for us for all things navigational.  :P

94
Training tips / Re: Tips
« on: November 10, 2011, 06:23:57 PM »
As mentioned in posts re: night time navigation, peaked cap also keeps torch light away from the eyes are does a bit to preserve night vision.

95
Variations of Existing Techniques / Re: Eye Height
« on: November 07, 2011, 08:45:05 AM »
Looks an interesting one Stu...

Going to have a go at it on my stairs and see what happens.

96
Plans / Re: Weekend ahead
« on: November 05, 2011, 07:12:08 AM »
Bonfire Weekend.
Couple of sessions booked in.
Today a 1 to 1 map reading and navigation with a complete beginner who claims to have no spatial awareness, a new one on me in the navigational context. Using an easy route with lots of large features that can be easily identified on the map.
Tomorrow a team of three that I have been working with since September will doing their first "solo route". They have planned, recced and organised everything themselves. Looking forward to seeing what they've come up with and being "towed" round.

97
General Discussion / Re: Book
« on: October 31, 2011, 09:41:16 PM »
Your words of wisdom are ok John-C...

I would agree that trying out night navigation on a route that you know well is a good way to get started.
Going for full darkness first time out may be too ambitious, going from day into night might be a better bet.
It gives your eyes more chance to adapt to the light conditions. Picking a night when you may have a decent moon is good too, it gives a surprising amount of light.
One of the things a lot of people suffer from in the dark is disorientation. It's all black and featureless, or is it? On route you know you will soon learn how familiar features look in the dark.
White torch light is a killer because it will mess up the night vision and does not allow you to see into the background past where the beam is aimed. It's all just black. For me, if a torch is needed, a red light works much better. Night vision is not completely messed up and the background is still visible.
As said above, reading a map with a red light can be tricky if you need to be sure of the contours. A weak red at an angle to the map has worked ok for me.

The key thing is to get out there and have a go, find out what works for you and develop your night skills from there.

98
Regional SAR teams / Re: Navigation Training for Lowland SAR Teams
« on: October 27, 2011, 10:43:00 PM »
Picking up on Adi's post.

The standard of nav required for WGL and ML has certainly gone down in recent years.
There is only one thin chapter in the handbook on it now.

I still have some original NNAS blurb somewhere, it had a few paragraphs on why the thing was set up. Out of interest I'll try and dig it out.

People have made a lot of money out of NNAS.
It doesn't take many people at £99 a head to make a good living.

The bottom line is that any organisation that wants to be recognised has to live and work to the existing and recognised standards until something better comes along.

99
Regional SAR teams / Re: Navigation Training for Lowland SAR Teams
« on: October 27, 2011, 10:26:38 PM »
Hi Ron...

I think you hit it on the nail on the head when you talked about your NNAS experiences in the Peak District.
That's where I did mine too and it was just as tough. My last assessment day started off in a blizzard and got colder and wetter as the day went by. It certainly focused our minds on why we had been taught some of the navigation techniques.

People I know who have done their courses in lowland areas may have been taught the same things. But they were never really tested when it came to the assessment. The terrain and conditions didn't  demand it. I know of instances where people were just asked what techniques they might use in particular circumstances. Knowing and doing are a bit far apart in my book. That's where  assessment standards are a bit suspect. In my own teaching I expect things to be done. If they tell me how a
problem can be solved I'll always ask them to show me too.

So I would recommend that anyone thinking of doing a course of any sort, not just NNAS, should do it where they will get the most benefit. A lowland person going to the Lakes or Peaks will be far better equipped to breeze through their own environment when they get back.

Bob

(sorry about the name)


100
Regional SAR teams / Re: Navigation Training for Lowland SAR Teams
« on: October 27, 2011, 07:35:09 PM »
Hello All...
A bit more for the NNAS debate and hopefully not too long a post.

Quoting this from the NNAS blurb:
"Providers must register annually with the NNAS if they are to deliver accredited courses. Instructors are required to hold appropriate qualifications such as Walk Group Leader, Mountain Leader, British Orienteering Federation Coach etc."
WGL and ML are qualifications from Mountain Leader Training UK. Navigation is only a small part of their awards, all are geared more to running expeditions in various types of terrain. WGL and ML take time achieve. Apart from passing assessments, an expedition log is required that demonstrates that you have been actively out there doing it over a period of time.
I work for an NNAS Provider who has an ML. That lets him run and assess Bronze and Silver.
So the bottom line is that if an LSAR Team can get someone who has WGL or an ML on board they could probably register as a provider and run those two levels. Gold requires that the assessment is carried out on a separate day by someone not involved in delivering the Gold Course.

Having said all that, for LSAR work Silver would be fine as a base level for navigation. But it should be born in mind that NNAS is an assessment not a qualification. Basically, on that day, over that terrain, in those conditions, that person met the assessment criteria. They are not an all singing and dancing navigator. I saw this perfectly demonstrated by someone with Silver obtained in the Chilterns unable to navigate in poor conditions on the Peak District moors.

It also depends a lot on how the provider decides to assess the criteria. Some set very demanding navigational tasks and expect them to be done properly. Others have a more "relaxed" approach, "you turned up so you've got your certificate".

Navigation is something that is difficult to assess let alone qualify in, because there are so many variables.
NNAS is a good scheme that delivers skills to several thousand people a year. So it certainly has a part to play.
But I think care should be taken not inflate into something that it isn't.





101
Compasses / Re: A case of school boy error
« on: October 25, 2011, 09:15:31 PM »
Very interesting stuff on that link sniperkona.
Would never have thought about being 10 metres from barbed wire. Must check that out.
Always knew my machine gun would be a problem.  :(

102
Plans / Re: Weekend ahead
« on: October 21, 2011, 02:32:43 PM »
Easy time this weekend.
Couple of hours 1 to 1 nav Saturday morning.
Shopping in the afternoon??? Yikes!!
Group AGM Sunday afternoon.
Will be chewing carpet by Sunday evening!
Leaves in gutters and caravan cleaning sounds much more exciting.

103
Best Places to Buy / Re: Mini clicker wheels
« on: October 14, 2011, 05:44:56 PM »
I get my tally counters from tallycounters.co.uk
As said above, use them on short legs, don't go on counting for ever and if it's more important to have a pole in your hand than a counter, it's not rocket science to count normally.
Mechanical counters are much more reliable than electronic types, less to go wrong. Its never happened to me but I have heard of them freezing when they get water inside them.
Using an electronic pedometer to measure paces is I think asking for trouble, they measure body movement.
You can get the alleged steps to go up by rocking backwards and forwards.
So I think it's a case of try things out and seeing what works best for you.

104
Best Places to Buy / Re: Mini clicker wheels
« on: October 12, 2011, 07:41:51 AM »
Never been able to find a mini counter. But, have been using a standard size mechanical click tally counter for many years. Works well in all weathers, easy to use with gloves on etc. Useful for counting through large groups quickly too. Loads of sites selling them. A valuable piece of kit.

105
New Member Introductions / Morning All
« on: October 12, 2011, 07:29:20 AM »
Something that has been missing for years has appeared from nowhere.
After seeing the book in Trail and getting copy I was stunned.
Everything you could ever want to know in one tome. Add to the mix this site and the unmentionable Shaven Raspberry.
A one stop shop for all things navigational. From the initial posts I'm sure that this whole venture will be a success.
Great job Lyle.

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