Author Topic: Azimuth or Bearing  (Read 27931 times)

adi

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 548
    • View Profile
Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2012, 08:33:58 PM »
RAF regiment is a land force so under NATO convention uses Mils. (I had forgotten to include them but they don't stray to far away from their forward operating bases.) There prime role is as a protection force and not a fighting force.   

The reason the RAF use degrees is because they have to use civilian air traffic control which as you know uses degrees. Ask a pilot to convert a Mils bearing to a degrees bearing the chances are he will fly into the ground. When we used Helos as platforms it was us that would do the conversion then give it to the pilot.
"We do not belong to those who only get their thought from books, or at the prompting of books - it is our custom to think in the open air, walking, leaping, climbing or dancing, of lonesome mountains by preference, or close to the sea, where even the paths become thoughtful." Friedrich Nietzsche

elenabrz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Get lost!
    • View Profile
    • Online communication consulting and mentoring
Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2013, 04:20:24 PM »
Hi
I took an orientation course and the trainer said azimuth is always when working on maps and bearings with compasses. He said azimuth is the angle that occurs between the geographic North and your direction line whilst bearing is the angle that goes from magnetic north to your direction line. Thus, he continued, bearing= azimut + magnetic declination.

After reading this thread, I'm not sure what he said was right.   :-\

Greetings from Spain
Elena

Lyle Brotherton

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
  • Competent and safe navigation sets you free.
    • View Profile
Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2013, 09:56:56 AM »
Welcome Elena, great to have you on-board :)

Azimuth is the number of degrees from whichever north you are working with, so on your map it would be grid north and on your compass it would be magnetic north. Adding (or deleting) magnetic declination is just confuses things.
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

Callum

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 512
    • View Profile
Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2013, 12:10:01 PM »
In the British army we used azimuth for MILS, at the outdoors centre I instruct degrees, it's a matter of preference.

Welcome Elena:)

Paul Hitchen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
    • Jonty's Cottage
Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2013, 01:27:28 PM »
I suspect azimuth/elevation in military use might have come from artillery; those are the terms used when pointing things into the sky (howitzers, telescopes...).  Maybe they used 'azimuth' instead of bearing to keep a single term for angular direction, to avoid confusion?

Range and bearing are other terms used in weapons fire control/reporting.

Heading is yet another term for bearing...

Essentially, different skill sectors use different jargon for the same thing.

'Quadrant system'?  I'm guessing N, S, E, W...

Just one note to add to the comment 'Heading is yet another term for bearing'.  Sort of, but.... In aviation they are sometimes separated as terms when used.  The bearing is usually the direction to or from the aircraft to say a radio aid (VOR, NDB etc). e.g the aircraft is on the 120 radial from Manchester Airport's VOR.   Or bearing is used for the usual compass bearing, say Barton is on a bearing of 290 from here.  Heading tends to be used as the direction you are pointing the aircraft. 

Say Barton was 290 degrees from where you were currently to the east of Barton, if there was a strong wind from the north, you may set a heading of 300, knowing you will be blown on track when you get there.  (You calculate this exactly with a whiz wheel, a douglas protractor, a piece of string , a stop watch and some lucky Heather.  Or just use a GPS. ).  So the bearing may be say 290, but you are heading 300. Hope that helps?  All the best, Paul.

captain paranoia

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
    • View Profile
Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2013, 03:26:39 PM »
Paul, yes, that's true of any form of transport where your direction of travel (bearing) is different from where you're pointing (heading).  So planes, boats, erm...  Of course, just to confuse things, in common speech we might say 'where are you heading?'...

I guess you might also use it walking if there's a strong crosswind, to attempt to compensate for drift...

elenabrz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Get lost!
    • View Profile
    • Online communication consulting and mentoring
Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2013, 03:35:28 PM »
Welcome Elena, great to have you on-board :)

Azimuth is the number of degrees from whichever north you are working with, so on your map it would be grid north and on your compass it would be magnetic north. Adding (or deleting) magnetic declination is just confuses things.

Thanks Lyle! And congrats on your book, it's a (must) great read.  :D
So according to your answer, then, bearing is the number of degrees when you are working with compass, only, isn't it?
So azimuth includes bearing but bearing is not azimuth. Tongue twister?


captain paranoia

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
    • View Profile
Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2013, 04:02:47 PM »
One way to avoid the confusion is to use the terms:

magnetic bearing, meaning the angle on a compass, between magnetic North and direction
grid bearing, meaning the angle on a map with a NS/WE grid, between grid North and direction

Convert between the two using the Grid Magnetic Angle, which includes the local magnetic declination and the local map grid convergence.

The other terms are more specific to other fields of activity, and I think magnetic bearing and grid bearing are appropriate (and probably the most commonly used) terms for land navigation with map and compass.

Pete McK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2013, 09:44:09 AM »
Welcome Elena from me and Emma:)

Lyle Brotherton

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
  • Competent and safe navigation sets you free.
    • View Profile
Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2013, 03:03:36 PM »
Well said CP and I totally agree.
“Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance” - Plato

MoonMan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Azimuth or Bearing
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2013, 05:34:11 AM »
If any one feels the urge to have a compass with 40 points, these may be obtained from Islamic Bookshops: they are cheap & mass-produced, & come with a little booklet that tells the user on which number to let Fred sit in, so that 00 or 40 points towards  the Kaaba in Mecca. Great Circle Course. The 360 is 30 dozen, arrived at by finger counting up to five dozen on one hand, then in 60s on the other. 6 times 60. Counting joints rather than digits can open up the field for finger counting.
Keeping Track of where Here is in relation to There.